Queer Gnosis

By Troy Williams

In part one of my interview with genderqueer activist, Mattilda, we discussed the dangers of gay assimilation into the world of straight privilege.  In the second part, we discuss hur new anthology, Nobody Passes: Confronting the Rules of Gender and Conformity.  The contributors in the volume each share their intimate experiences along the gender-blur continuum of queer identity. The various essays explore transgender politics, class issues, immigration and race struggles, as well as S&M, inter-queer discrimination and more.  The book offers a wild ride through the turbulent waters of conformity and individuality. Ultimately these smart and insightful essays question the very nature of belonging.  The book also dares to ask about the possibility of choice in our sexuality and gender performance. 

TW: Let’s jump into your anthology.  This is an exciting and accessible book.  In fact, I’m going to go as far and say it’s even a dangerous book. 

M: Good!

TW:  It’s comprised of a series of personal essays where you engage the problem of identity and what one contributor calls the “ill-fitting nature of categories.”  And it seems that a thread that weaves through the various narratives is this conflict between personal authenticity and that deep desire to belong and be part of a group. 

M: Absolutely. What I wanted to examine with Nobody Passes is the kind of compromises we are required to make in order to find these elusive ideas of community and belonging.  What kind of violence lurks behind that?  All of the contributors are talking about these really complicated intersections of identity and categorization and community — and asking, why is it belonging that we are after?

TW:  It seems like this is hard-wired into us – to connect and be part of something larger.  And I’m wondering if this deep yearning to belong is actually what drives the assimilationist desires of the LGBT political movement?

M: Absolutely.  And that is where the violence comes in.  Especially if belonging means being the front-line of gentrification and moving into a neighborhood to get rid of the trannies and the whores and the drug addicts and homeless people.  And then if we really succeed, straight people will eventually move in and gentrify us out of the neighborhood!  Assimilation is cultural erasure.  When you succeed that means you’re gone.  And the essays in Nobody’s Passes are about articulating all of these complicated identities and places where we don’t belong. 

TW: You talk about the power of choosing your own gender, your own orientation and ultimately your own identity.  And I’ve come to reject the “born that way” argument because, well — women, poor people, Native Americans, other people of color — they’re all “born that way” and that hasn’t provided them any political capital in our culture.  Why do you think we so invested in this idea of biological determinism?

M: It’s arguing for acceptance on the terms of the people who want us dead.  And so it’s like, “oh wait, we didn’t choose to be this way!  I didn’t choose this dark and desperate and degraded and dangerous life!  How could I possibly choose this?”   It’s already accepting this pathology.  “We can’t change it, we’re sick!  So please accept us!” I think the real potential of queer identity is in enabling people to choose our gender, sexual and social identities.  That’s the real potential.  That’s the excitement, the glamour, the courage and the vibrancy.  Obviously we’re not at that place yet.  But for me, that’s what a queer analysis can do for something else.  How do we take apart all of these structures?  Not just the structures in the world around us, but the structures within ourselves. That’s what I am interested in — a politics that enables people to choose as many possibilities as they can and not limiting it around that whole “born that way” argument.  It doesn’t go anywhere — it’s a dead end. 

TW:  I was going to ask you what your vision of a queertopia might be – but that’s it, isn’t it?  It’s having the freedom to choose all of these things.

M: Yeah, that for me is the goal.  Though I’m a little afraid of utopias. (laughs)

TW: It’s a queertopia!

M: (laughs) yeah, ok.  Utopias often have a way of going the other direction.  But we have to have some hope for dismantling dominant systems of oppression. Whether those systems are as obvious as something like George Bush or our own social circles.   Even if they are radical outsider cultures. For me the real possibility is to be able to instigate and create something else.  That’s the point.  We can look at this horrible world and ask how do we create something else?

TW:  And that has always been the role of the fringe and the avant-garde  – to confront status quo, to provoke, agitate and summon something new for our culture.

M: Absolutely. That’s the possibility for finding the connections and really actually making change that works.

By Troy Williams

In part one of my interview with genderqueer activist, Mattilda, we discussed the dangers of gay assimilation into the world of straight privilege.  In the second part, we discuss hur new anthology, Nobody Passes: Confronting the Rules of Gender and Conformity.  The contributors in the volume each share their intimate experiences along the gender-blur continuum of queer identity. The various essays explore transgender politics, class issues, immigration and race struggles, as well as S&M, inter-queer discrimination and more.  The book offers a wild ride through the turbulent waters of conformity and individuality. Ultimately these smart and insightful essays question the very nature of belonging.  The book also dares to ask about the possibility of choice in our sexuality and gender performance. 

TW: Let’s jump into your anthology.  This is an exciting and accessible book.  In fact, I’m going to go as far and say it’s even a dangerous book. 

M: Good!

TW:  It’s comprised of a series of personal essays where you engage the problem of identity and what one contributor calls the “ill-fitting nature of categories.”  And it seems that a thread that weaves through the various narratives is this conflict between personal authenticity and that deep desire to belong and be part of a group. 

M: Absolutely. What I wanted to examine with Nobody Passes is the kind of compromises we are required to make in order to find these elusive ideas of community and belonging.  What kind of violence lurks behind that?  All of the contributors are talking about these really complicated intersections of identity and categorization and community — and asking, why is it belonging that we are after?

TW:  It seems like this is hard-wired into us – to connect and be part of something larger.  And I’m wondering if this deep yearning to belong is actually what drives the assimilationist desires of the LGBT political movement?

M: Absolutely.  And that is where the violence comes in.  Especially if belonging means being the front-line of gentrification and moving into a neighborhood to get rid of the trannies and the whores and the drug addicts and homeless people.  And then if we really succeed, straight people will eventually move in and gentrify us out of the neighborhood!  Assimilation is cultural erasure.  When you succeed that means you’re gone.  And the essays in Nobody’s Passes are about articulating all of these complicated identities and places where we don’t belong. 

TW: You talk about the power of choosing your own gender, your own orientation and ultimately your own identity.  And I’ve come to reject the “born that way” argument because, well — women, poor people, Native Americans, other people of color — they’re all “born that way” and that hasn’t provided them any political capital in our culture.  Why do you think we so invested in this idea of biological determinism?

M: It’s arguing for acceptance on the terms of the people who want us dead.  And so it’s like, “oh wait, we didn’t choose to be this way!  I didn’t choose this dark and desperate and degraded and dangerous life!  How could I possibly choose this?”   It’s already accepting this pathology.  “We can’t change it, we’re sick!  So please accept us!” I think the real potential of queer identity is in enabling people to choose our gender, sexual and social identities.  That’s the real potential.  That’s the excitement, the glamour, the courage and the vibrancy.  Obviously we’re not at that place yet.  But for me, that’s what a queer analysis can do for something else.  How do we take apart all of these structures?  Not just the structures in the world around us, but the structures within ourselves. That’s what I am interested in — a politics that enables people to choose as many possibilities as they can and not limiting it around that whole “born that way” argument.  It doesn’t go anywhere — it’s a dead end. 

TW:  I was going to ask you what your vision of a queertopia might be – but that’s it, isn’t it?  It’s having the freedom to choose all of these things.

M: Yeah, that for me is the goal.  Though I’m a little afraid of utopias. (laughs)

TW: It’s a queertopia!

M: (laughs) yeah, ok.  Utopias often have a way of going the other direction.  But we have to have some hope for dismantling dominant systems of oppression. Whether those systems are as obvious as something like George Bush or our own social circles.   Even if they are radical outsider cultures. For me the real possibility is to be able to instigate and create something else.  That’s the point.  We can look at this horrible world and ask how do we create something else?

TW:  And that has always been the role of the fringe and the avant-garde  – to confront status quo, to provoke, agitate and summon something new for our culture.

M: Absolutely. That’s the possibility for finding the connections and really actually making change that works.